Curse

sinican · Dec 15, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

I'm going to stay out of the arguing because i know when and where this build was first posted and By whom. This build was put together during the first preview Based off the CoPway Dervish that destroyed halls during beta testing.

thats something I didn't know.. nice to know, thanks

Quote:

I see 1 major flaw and 1 possible minor one.

Major flaw.....is signet of poise light. good yes But I draw your attention to ViM. With Victory is mine you yeild an additional 20-25e and 160-200hp.
This now makes everything on your bar spammable.

already attempted such a variation for PvP play...

however, the best way that I had suggested to play the build really uses the signet to its fullest... in all ways possible... the signet serves as a main key to releaseing enchants when you want them to be released not when they expire or removed by someone else(the origional version i posted in this thread used attacks to release them but since my move to dismis depending on actual melee dmg this was no longer the case]... the signet also provides a no energy requirement to release enchants and to heal at the same time and not just myself but also my teamates... the signet is 0 recharge as long as it removes an enchant... it really is essential in this version of the build... and compared to ViM, the signets healing is better has faster recharge and cost 0e to activate and since it removes an enchant it returns energy as well and faster based on how many enchants i remove with it back to back... the flaw in the signet though as i see it is that it IS interuptable and without it, it does hurt

Quote:

Possible minor flaw. Dust cloak. its good if your team need anti melee conditions but its earth dmg. If you do not need to spec for melee then zealous renewal is a better choice. it is holy dmg and it yeilds energy when it ends based on number of hits you make.

for me based on how i play and usually haveing a bunch of meleers/rangers on my back trying to protect their healers or attempting to interupt me etc Dusk cloaks ability to "blind" is my major benefit from the skill and its ability to not just blind a single target but all those wacking on me (this really messes up thumppers and assassins as does any melee weapon person)...

was running Zealous though before i decided dust cloak... also another reason zealous just really doesnt seem to work in this build is because the build isn't actually hitting with a weapon hardly at all.. energy already isnt a problem which allows the spells to be cast continuosely... also the dependance on being able to hit is a problem with zealous (being blinded/blocked/evaded was my concern)

Quote:

But ty for the post. Hope you try my suggestions.

Enjoy.

thank you for the suggestions... im sorry they don't help me any

... wish they could have... just not usefull for how i play the build... they are still great suggestions if used for a Scythe/Enchant dervish...

like using... Pious assult, dropping dust for zealous and the signet for ViM... but then id also consider dropping staggering for Heart of Fury

with 10 in Scythe, 12 in earth, 15 in mysticism

tried that build too :P, I like it as well but just enjoy not depending on hiting things with my weapon and I enjoy the much higher defence capabilies as well as a controlable AoE dmg/condtions that aid everyone not just myself...

see to many other Dervishes in PvP going down way to fast for my liking...

jesh · Dec 15, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

I think ViM worked on all foes in the area with conditions back then.. since then it's been changed to only the one you have targeted. It was much better before October 25th.

Saider maul · Dec 15, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I see no change from ViM. My gain is still capped by the size of my bars 99% of the time. so the " nerf " didn't have the desired effect.

I also do not use a scythe. hate them for the most part. i use basically a FFS with crip/+5al mods and a +12+15-1e regen +30hp offhand. my base energy is 45. I can't complain.

jesh · Dec 15, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Well before it got changed, ViM would fill you past your bars.. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed this, and didn't want to say anything. >.>;

I think my record was something like 1100 hp and I forget how much energy, this was playing on a warrior, not a dervish.

Taini · Dec 15, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

I see no change from ViM. My gain is still capped by the size of my bars 99% of the time. so the " nerf " didn't have the desired effect.

Would any of you say that ViM is a easier way to start playing this build??
If one hasent laid down the: "If this happens, i need to pious light once, then add this.. not that.." and so forth??
Sound to mee like ViM would be a great hp/energy mangement for a D/W enchant-bomber firsttimer like myself? Only issue is switching target to one who just got the bomb in the mail?

no?

sinican · Dec 15, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taini

Would any of you say that ViM is a easier way to start playing this build??
If one hasent laid down the: "If this happens, i need to pious light once, then add this.. not that.." and so forth??
Sound to mee like ViM would be a great hp/energy mangement for a D/W enchant-bomber firsttimer like myself? Only issue is switching target to one who just got the bomb in the mail?

no?

My opinion is no...

I already stated the reasons for this...

-signet releases an enchantment, it is something you want to do to apply the effect of an enchant you just applied
-signet instantly recharge which allows you to cast another enchant imediately and reuse it again
-signet is 0 energy cost

but, it is always your choice... i find that the energy cost, recharge time, and won't remove an enchant is what make ViM not as desired for the playstyle of the build...

good use of the build is to prep with HoHf, Regen, Boon... then run in for your target cast dust cloak and imediately remove with signet then cast thorns, release with signet (or the reverse in some situations) then cast staggering then hit sandstorm...

after your first sandstorm signet helps manage your energy and health while building up 4 enchants before smashing sandstorm again...and under a lot of pressure casting an enchant then signet then enchant then signet then enchant then signet... keeps you allive,regain energy, and doing dmg, and applying effects (such as blinding your foes and weakening their melee attacks)

kirch1jt · Dec 15, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

i just dont see the signet helping that much, it takes away from your spammability of myst sandstrm, ms is your spike and the sig kills your spike, sure it heals and gives some energy but then wheres you big 130 dmg spike. I say spike em, and then ViM at the right time and your bars stay full you then maximize ms and still have a good heal and energy gain without the sacrifice of your spike, but if thats what works for you go for it. not everyone has the same play style though, maybe we should all team up on a AB team or something and do some crazy spikes to opposing mobs, lol

DeanBB · Dec 15, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I tried it in PvE and the problem I had was the constantly moving and scattering foes. Yes, there were times when I'd catch some grouped but by and large I was hitting 1 at a time, and there are better builds for that.

Or I'd be set to trigger an AoE and the foe would move on me, wasting it. At least with scythe attacks I follow and still hit them.

Saider maul · Dec 15, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

the stick and move does take some skill to get used to but once you get used to it you know how to position yourself.

Yes i know what viM used to do i was saying that my gain was still capped by my bar. what good is hp and energy you cant use?

I am not saying signet is bad i am saying it has its own purpose and turns the " mage-bomb " into a DoT build rather then a spike.

But to each their own.

sinican · Dec 16, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

ok going to try adn respond top the previous 3 posts simultaniousely...

optimal Play style of this build is not to spam sandstorm... the playstyle is high pressure dmg with a spike while tanking... the signet is needed not for healing as the primary ability but to release enchants when they need to be released...Dust cloak for example if triggered and released blinds everyone around you... which keeps you from getting interupted and taking massive dmg... staggering weakins all arround you which means you take less dmg from all melee attacks... you only need 4 enchants before wacking sandstorm... and the recharge times on your enchants aren't always available for spamming sandstorm every 8 seconds in the first place... however using your signet for casting and releasing dust and staggering while stacking enchants and releasing sandstorm which allows for perfect timing in the first place... keeps you alive as a bonus... it is very hard to kill this build except by certain profs like necros and messies... removing the signet really cripples that ability

if you want higher single target dmg then really the build and the playstyle for this build are not for you... this isnt the type of build where you just spam your skill bar without meaning... each skill in the build has its own purpose other than feeding sandstorm... otherwise the build would have any old enchants in it at all 5e costs and quick recharges and of Corse ViM...

also knowing or learning how to control agro is helpfull in any build you run... this build is meant for large agro.. and for it to work well you have to know how to clump your AI victims... in PvP its not realy a problem because the people coming after you typically dont run at all and you can tank their dmg...

I think what people are really having a problem with is how to play the build... its very different than normal... and is alot like farming ALOT... mater of fact this build can actually solo farm many places...

it is alot like being a touch ranger as well(except its AoE style touching).. you are going to c+space to stick to your primary target after clustering a group let your c+space keep you on them if they are running...

I am not getting angry and I hope im not insulting anyone... it really is a unique build that does require a unique way to play it... but once you get controll of that it is "amazing" as i stated...

some of you may need to go up against this build in PvP to see whats going on with it... some may need to be shown how to play with it... its harder to explain than show...

but the point all here is... you all are free to change skills if that is what you want to do... but it doesn not play the same way... i have been through ALL secondaries tuning this build up.. i have made a major attribute change to this making it a pure derv and 2 variants of a single skill swap... at this point in time i am not ready to post about it... but the skills listed and such for the build are what works the best for how the build was intended to be played... if you have a different playstyle that completely changes the build's effectivness as is and yes there is going to be a better build to fit how you play... if you can learn how to play this build the way i concieved it though i think youd really understand why the skills are what they are...

Huntster · Dec 19, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I am wondering how you manage your energy with this build. I am a newbie dervish player but I thought you only gained e back from high mysticism if the enchantments ends not being rended?

Saider maul · Dec 19, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

it it is removed it ends. thats why a grenth is so fun to play with.

kirch1jt · Dec 20, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

i wouldnt say my playstyle is to spam m.sandstrom, if you do you'll only be stripping a couple enchantments at a time. I feel im waiting for more enchantments to recharge, so sandstorm is delayed. So using Signet of Pious Light would delay good usage of your spike even more. Im sure it proabaly evens out, 1 way kills quicker the other makes you even more of a tank but kill a bit slower.

The Muffen Man · Dec 20, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Theres no elite in this build why?

Taini · Feb 23, 2007, 08:30 AM // 08:30

First off.. Let me apologize for bumping such an old post..
But.. I have some related questions..

Ive been inactive for a few moths and have been reading about some "Nerfs" to different proffessions.. like the Paragon..

My main question is.. has anything happened that affects this build?
I ran the +10 axe mastery one and felt quite happy about the way it worked..
Altenating ViM with SoPL depending on Soloing or playing in a party that had a main tank...

Sec Q: Has there been any major improvements to it?

Also.. Any new items that helps? I used a 12 + 15 -1 +45hp(enchant) offhand..

Cheers..

African War Lord · Feb 23, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I fought one of these dervs yesterday 2 rounds in a row. Both times he came after me and both times I killed him. The first time was harder cause he had a monk backing him but the second round was easy as pie.

Not saying your build is bad and I could see how he would cause trouble to warriors and sins but my build under the post ele pressure!!! takes care of most of these guys with little trouble. I'll say this though he did more damage to me than most anyone ever does.

He got our whole team almost at 50% health and bleeding but he was still killed. I don't know why we were all standing together lol..

Taini · Feb 26, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

I'll say this though he did more damage to me than most anyone ever does.

He got our whole team almost at 50% health and bleeding but he was still killed. I don't know why we were all standing together lol..

For starters Id like to thank you fort replying to this old topic..
My question is based on a PvE perspective.. I almost never play PvP..

The amount of dmg this build does to a group to me, Far mor intresting than any single foe dmg.

Althoug.. a guild buddy of mine has started to use the Virulence spiker build from the wiki.. I just can't wait to try the Fragility and Virulence combo with this build..

Kyuuba · Mar 04, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

"dervish bombs" are indeed becoming common.
I personally like using them myself in pvp either to solo farm (zaishen challenge) faction or have some fun in arenas.
they work well farming monsters in game too.
Their survivability and tanking ability is great as well as the damage.
energy is a slight problem but usually only 2-3 cycles of enchanting and everything should be dead.
i like to use radiant armor with earth rune, mysticism rune, vigor rune, 2 attunement runes and a +10 staff with +5 energy inscript +5 energy head
i usually do not have any energy problems for the first few bomb cycles.

multi killer n l · Mar 27, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

in random arenas i fought some1 in with this build he really soloed (the other were dead) all four of us we wernt that good but we had a monk an assa warrior and elementalist but we didnt even came half its hp really awesome im going to make 1 of these as well

GourangaPizza · Mar 27, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Wouldn't it be better to go D/A, since you are using a non-req shield and an energy weapon? You could free up 1 slot for death's charge or shadow prison for a definite kill on your target, since this build functions almost identical to an E/A bomb.